Template talk:City

New parameters proposal

I'd want to propose the addition of two parameters to this template: plane and celestial body. At the moment, the plane where a planar settlements is located is usually placed in the nation parameter, which has never seemed right to me (plane and nation are far from synonyms, and there are many nations that are located on planes other than the Material). The celestial body parameter serves the same purpose for settlements that are not located on Golarion. - HTD (talk) 12:00, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Is there anyone that would disagree with this proposal? - HTD (talk) 00:27, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

I am in favour. I think they should be separate, as you suggest, as a plane or a planet can indeed have nations too. With the more recent sourcebooks, it seems a lot more of these now exist to make this worthwhile. This is not trivial though. Here are the steps we'd have to take that come immediately to mind:

• update the template with two new optional lines immediately underneath '| region' with '| plane =' & '| what??'; 'celestial body' is too long, what about 'world' or just 'celestial' or 'body' or 'celbod'? We call them 'cosmological entity' on the Cosmos template, so 'entity' or 'cosmos'?
• update the template documentation including the example
• update the Article template toolbox City template proforma
• update all the City templates on the wiki with the two new lines - that'll require a bot
• find and change all the city templates that can use either of the two new lines and update them - that's a manual task that'll need some planning itself

Any other changes I missed? -Fleanetha (talk) 22:59, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Entity sounds too vague to me. I think world is appropriate enough; SFWiki  once used planet but this had to be changed to accommodate the Burning Archipelago  and other settlements located on the sun and not on any planet. I also think that these two parameters should be place above nation, not below region (in descending order of size: plane, world, nation, region). As for existing settlement pages, we can simply write Material Plane in the plane parameter and Golarion in the world one. - HTD (talk) 03:39, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I think these should be optional parameters that we only include if the settlement in question is not on Golarion or the Material Plane, since the vast majority of them are and that is the default assumption. I think we only really need to call out those cases that deviate from the norm.— Yoda8myhead (talk) 04:20, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

<reset indentation> Thanks both. On the SFWiki, Celestial Body proves the point of being too long and line breaks, which we don't want. I am comfortable with 'world'. I like the size order too, HTD so let's go with plane, world, nation, region. As I wrote above, perhaps not clearly enough, I agree with Yoda that where plane is Material Plane and world is Golarion, we leave the line with no parameter filled in, as it is just bloat to fill it in then. That means the updated to do list is now:

• update the template by inserting two new optional lines between '| titles' and '| nation' called '| plane' and '| world'
• update the template documentation including the example
• update the Article template toolbox City template proforma
• update all the City templates on the wiki with the two new lines - that'll require a bot
• find and change all the city templates that can use either of the two new lines and update them, only updating if the settlement in question is not on Golarion or the Material Plane - this is a manual task that'll need some planning itself

OK? --Fleanetha (talk) 08:42, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I think we are good to go at this point. The changes should also be copied over to SFWiki as well (specifically concerning the plane parameter and the Article template toolbox thing). - HTD (talk) 09:31, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Changes implemented on the template itself and related pages. - HTD (talk) 23:52, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Good. Making a note here that we'll need to check Gurminghome & Citadel of the Black after the bot has run to check we haven't got duplicate entries in the template. I'll now ask Oznobot as I read somewhere Yodabot was sick. --Fleanetha (talk) 09:03, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Updated with progress, thanks Oznobot, and a quick check shows it has all gone through successfully. There may be some older ill-formatted city templates that were missed but we'll just have to find them and update them manually. Re SFW, although I am listed as an administrator, I actually have no account there. For the last step, the category structure should provide you with a good list of what needs updating. --Fleanetha (talk) 14:38, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

The SFW stuff had been done (it turns out easier than I initially thought). Currently going through manually updating the settlements outside of Golarion or the Material Plane. I have noticed that a few settlements on Golarion now have Material Plane written in the plane parameter and Golarion in the world parameter; are we supposed to be doing this? - HTD (talk) 15:42, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Settlement Level

After just referencing the new Pathfinder Gamemastery Guide 134, I noticed a new (I think) 2E stat for settlements called 'Level': "[a] settlement's level represents its relative size and economic capacity". Although it could be argued it's crunch, I think it's a valuable measure to help users of the wiki gauge a city's importance. I am going to add it now to the City template and help guide and would be grateful if the new template would be used for forming any new city pages. As I believe we no longer have any working bots, we'll have to all muck in to update city templates with the new parameter please. --Fleanetha (talk) 09:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)