Talk:Caligni

Merge with dark folk (RESOLVED)

Pathfinder Bestiary p. 50-51 indicates that there is no meaningful distinction between caligni and dark folk, and that "caligni" is the preferred term.

“

Some surface dwellers call the caligni "dark folk," a term they dislike because it doesn't reflect either their appearance or character, only their environment. ... The calignis are descendants of humans who, millennia ago, fled underground to escape a devastating cataclysm and begged malevolent, shadowy demigods known only as the Forsaken ...

”

Furthermore, the example caligni provided are the dancer, creeper, and stalker, which correlate directly in name and ability to the dark dancer, dark creeper, and dark stalker.

The content of dark folk should be merged into this article, and references to dark folk across the wiki should be updated to align with the new nomenclature where appropriate.

I'll assume if there's no comment in the next two weeks that it is acceptable to proceed with the merge and resulting changes to other articles. -Oznogon (talk) 04:18, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

There is a little problem with merging: both articles are currently about different subjects, with dark folk referring to the species as a whole and caligni to the genetic throwbacks within that species. If the articles are merged, I feel like we will have to split them again when Paizo publishes a 2E caligni ancestry. - HTD (talk) 00:07, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Then we'll split them again when Paizo publishes a 2E caligni ancestry. -Oznogon (talk) 18:01, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

For the sake of transparency, you asked James Jacobs about this on Thursday and got a response of "Not yet." -Oznogon (talk) 13:02, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

In the normal sequence of checking edits, I have just tidied the dark folk page. I am not yet qualified to discuss the merits of this suggested move, so please do not take my edit as a vote to keep the page as and where it is. --Fleanetha (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

I've merged the content from dark folk while trying to retain as much of it as possible, updating it with the information in Pathfinder Bestiary, and using "dark folk" and "caligni" interchangably as is implied by James Jacobs stating in HTD's link above that there is no separation between them in Lost Omens.

Just got to reviewing this (over a year later) and I think you did a good job, Oznogon. I am going to put a few checklist points below for other 1E -> 2E jobs that will need doing. I have yet to look at your point immediately below, which may affect the tasks, and request that I get up to speed first before we embark further. --Fleanetha (talk) 20:28, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

I have also flagged dark dancer, dark creeper, and dark stalker for deletion so they can be redirected to this page, since those articles do not contain any canon sources and Pathfinder Bestiary refers to them as caligni variants rather than as distinct creatures. -Oznogon (talk) 06:35, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I've had a quick look and spotted I'd previously found a canon source for dark stalker and removed the RfD without fully understanding the wider question. It's pretty clear, as you say above, Paizo are just renaming 'dark x' to 'caligni x'. Paizo have since added caligni slayers in B2. For simplicity, I think we should just change the RfD to a RfMove and make the 2E name the master page with a redirect from the 1E name, as we have done for several other creatures. I think we can find canon refs to most of the dark folk in 1E if we look. Empty Graves looks a promising start with named examples of caller, stalker and slayer, plus refs to creepers; The Darkest Vengeance also has examples. We have a few more individuals within the dark folk category tree. --Fleanetha (talk) 23:47, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Adding redirects from the 1E names to 2E content is what I proposed, and the RfDs were specifically because of the prevalence of non-canon content, so this sounds good to me. If there are canon sources for any of the 1E content, the content would still need to be revised to accommodate changes to the canon in 2E/Lost Omens content. -Oznogon (talk) 01:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Splendid; thanks for checking back. --Fleanetha (talk) 11:00, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Removed content

I have removed the following content from the article because it cites only Pathfinder First Edition Bestiary descriptions, which are not canon sources per the Canon policy, and the Second Edition Bestiary conflicts with the content that refers to caligni and dark folk as separate species. We should consider restoring content if a canon source is available, and citing conflicts between them in references and {{Conflict}} pages if they cannot be resolved or rationalized in canon. -Oznogon (talk) 06:36, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Caligni measure close to six feet tall and weigh around 125 pounds.

Compared to dark stalkers, their features are more individually distinctive. Their skin is bleached grey, deepening to obsidian at extremities.

A third subset, the dark slayers, are ranked between the two other sub-races, although they sometimes take on leadership positions over groups of dark creepers as well. The role of the priest falls to a subset referred to as dark callers. A fifth subset are the dark dancers who are only subservient to dark callers and dark stalkers. Sometimes, from any of these groups, may be born individuals called caligni, who resemble the dark folk's ancient ancestors.

References

For additional as-yet unincorporated sources about this subject, see the Meta page.