Talk:Covenant/Conflicts

Differences with pantheons

Divine Mysteries 171 defines covenants as a distinct mechanical grouping of beings that collectively results in an entity that can be worshipped in a manner similar to a deity. It also explicitly distinguishes pantheons from covenants as groupings of only deities, in which worshippers venerate a single patron deity but follow the pantheon's collective edicts and anathema.

Specifically, Divine Mysteries 171—written from the objective perspective of rules content—asserts that:

• "In the case of a covenant, the character worships the entire covenant as a collective group ... Even if the character is aware of the individual members of a covenant, the character still worships the covenant as a whole. The character might have specific preferences or affinity toward a particular member or members of the covenant, but such predilections do not influence the worship of the covenant in any way."
• "Pantheons are groups of related gods—and only gods—worshipped either individually or together. ... In the case of a pantheon, the character still worships a specific patron deity among those in the pantheon, but also follows the edicts and anathema of the pantheon as a whole. ... They must uphold the ideals of both their patron deity and the pantheon, though the patron deity's edicts and anathema take precedence."

However, Divine Mysteries 237—in a chapter written from the in-universe perspective of Yivali, but from the "worshipping pantheons and covenants" section that tacitly appears to shift to objective rules text mid-paragraph by introducing out-of-character terms such as "GM"—conflicts with this definition by equating pantheons and covenants in ways not compatible with the prior definition of covenants (emphasis mine):

• "Pantheons and covenants are a group of related gods or other powers worshipped either individually or together. ... Followers work to advance the shared interests of their pantheon or covenant, directing prayers to whichever god presides over their current activity or circumstance. At the GM's discretion, champions and clerics can dedicate themselves to a pantheon or covenant. In such cases, the characters still worship a specific patron deity (or other power) among those in the pantheon or covenant."

Continued rules text on page 237 similarly refers to patron deities for domains, spells, edicts and anathema as page 171 established for pantheons, but also applies those assertions in a conflicting manner to covenants.

This redefinition creates a mechanical conflict with canon ramifications about how in-universe inhabitants worship covenants, and how (or whether) that worship is distinct from the worship of a pantheon. As the conflict is internal to Divine Mysteries, this conflict also cannot be resolved barring an official clarification or subsequent canon work.

These definitions are irrelevant to Pathfinder First Edition, in which pantheons were generic groupings of related deities and their mechanics were limited to traits or ad hoc definitions, and covenants are typically binding agreements referred to generically or rarely with ad hoc mechanics. -Oznogon (talk) 17:31, 23 December 2024 (UTC)