Talk:Holy Xatramba/Conflicts

Years

The founding and destruction years of Holy Xatramba conflict in The Mwangi Expanse, The Slithering, and other previous sources.

• The Slithering pg. 28 states that Xatramba was founded in 3699 AR, which also mentions but does not date the war with Rastel. On pg. 53, The Slithering states Xatramba fell in 4699 AR and that the event precipitates Kibwe's subsequent independence; it also inconsistently states on pg. 55 that no attacks on the city have occurred (emph. mine) "in the centuries since Holy Xatramba fell"; 4699 AR is 21 years prior to The Slithering based on publication date.
• The timeline in the "History" chapter of The Mwangi Expanse dates the end of the war between Rastel and Xatramba to 3705 AR (pg. 17).
  • The chapter's body on pg. 18 describes the rise and fall of Xatramba in the "Age of Darkness" section, implicitly suggesting it occurred prior to -632 AR. It also states that "Rastel’s summoning tore the barriers between planes, leaving rifts that the Magaambya and Ekujae fought for centuries to close" (pg. 18), which is inconsistent with the end of the Rastel-Xatramba war/fall of Xatramba being in 4699 AR. The chapter's body doesn't cite specific years.
• The "Holy Xatramba" subsection in the "Mwangi Jungle" chapter of The Mwangi Expanse states that Xatramba's heyday was "a thousand years ago" (pg. 156), or ca. 3720 AR, and that "Xatramba rose in more recent years" (pg. 157). The chapter's subsection on Rastel also suggests considerable time has passed ("Rastel’s cities are slowly being devoured by the jungle, their temples forgotten, their history lost", pg. 177). This would be most consistent with its destruction being in 3705 AR.
• The Mwangi Expanse does not state a founding year for Xatramba.
• Lost Kingdoms places Xatramba's founding "a thousand years ago" (pg. 52), consistent with The Slithering, but states that Xatramba fell centuries ago ("every attempt at reclamation ending in bloody failure for centuries", pg. 53).
• Lost Omens World Guide pg. 86 states that the walls of Kibwe predate Xatramba, "the lost nation that controlled the city centuries ago". Neither the text nor timeline mention any years specific to Xatramba's founding or destruction.
• The Final Wish states that Volnagur was defeated "at the ruins of Holy Xatramba in 909 AR", which is consistent with none of the above references.
• Strength of Thousands references Xatramba only in passing. Its religion is described as "ancient" in the context of a magic item, which doesn't settle anything.

This conflict is unresolved pending either clarification or a more precise authoritative source. (The Final Wish is the only Tier 1 source to mention a specific year, but its mention is both imprecise, tangetial, the oldest, and the least substantial of all of the above references.) The Mwangi Expanse is the same tier as The Slithering but newer.

We can possibly rule out Slithering's 4699 AR as the least likely year of Xatramba's fall since that is least consistent with other references, including its own source. 3705 AR is the only citable specific year of its fall that remains consistent with most references to it, so it's used on the wiki; if this is the year of its fall, 3699 AR as mentioned in The Slithering is also unlikely to be the year of its founding. -Oznogon (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Spelling

The timeline on The Mwangi Expanse pg. 17 and accompanying text in the History section on pg. 18 spell Xatramba "Xatremba". This spelling does not appear elsewhere in the work, or in any previous or subsequent works. -Oznogon (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)