User talk:Fleanetha
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2025
A few questions
Hello Fleanetha, I'm uncertain about a few things that I'd like to inquire further about.
- Why does the automatically created category, and sometimes categories edited by admins, end with a pipe symbol followed by an empty space?Does it provide different functionality, act as a placeholder, or serve any other purpose?
- I've noticed some pages, like Poisons of Golarion, list a large number of items that could have their own pages. Should I be doing the same with items like talismans instead of creating an individual page for each item? Or should the items from pages containing such lengthy lists be slowly transferred to their own individual pages?
- Why is Elixir not a stub, and when should I add the stub template to a page? I read the PathfinderWiki:Stub page, but appear to still be misusing it.
- Each new page seems to require many additional pages to be updated or created, such as categories, redirects, navboxes, the documentation for the navboxes, other related pages, as well as finding external images from Paizo and links from AoN. Should I be tracking and handling all of these changes myself, or can I leave that in the hands of admins? Feels like I'm creating a lot of extra work for others.
I appreciate the help, thanks. --Rexert (talk) 01:00, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
- Happy to address them, Rexert, and all good questions. However, I'll have to get to it tomorrow as it's v late here, sorry, except I have addressed the strange aberration above. --Fleanetha (talk) 01:13, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Sorting lists of names
Re: revision 562636, please document sorting guidance for sorting lists of names in either Help:Navboxes or PathfinderWiki:Manual of style so I can help reduce the need for you to spend time on such maintenance edits.
Particularly, sorting names in in-universe navboxes: should they be sorted alphabetically by given name (such as in {{Kintargo navbox}} and others) or family name (such as in {{Okeno navbox}} and others)?
I've been sorting these lists by given name as I've created navboxes ({{Aelyosos navbox}}, {{Urgir navbox}}, {{Deepmar navbox}}, etc.).
The lack of guidance either way makes overriding an existing navbox's sorting without discussion, as if it's established policy, seem arbitrary. If you're about to go on a run of overriding them, I can save you the time and trouble and just do it myself. -Oznogon (talk) 02:50, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
- Hi Oz, I am confused by your last comment there. As far as I could see and also as I look now, there was no order to anything in the navbox I changed, so I alphabetized it in every section, as we do for all our navboxes (unless obviously stated in the navbox). It wasn't arbitrary and I have no idea what I was overriding.
- On your first point about name sorting, it looks like we perform alphabetical sorting differently and have been doing so for over a decade. We can adopt a standard, if you want - arm wrestle to decide? If you've gone to the trouble of making a navbox, I am pretty sure I have never overridden your sorting. If it's consistent, it's fine. I prefer my way, of course, that’s why I adopt that way. I also applied it to the various indices when they were in vogue too. It's more encyclopaedic and gathers together folks with the same name, for instance. However, I know you'll have a very well-thought rationale for your method too. --Fleanetha (talk) 11:05, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
- Nothing exists in the wiki's guidance to tell editors to make the changes that you did, or to explain why you did it that way. Are you sorting by last name because it's more logical than other sorting methods? Is your method more logical than mine? The lack of guidance is what makes changing any or no sort method in a navbox to sorting by family name, or first name, or first letter of the article title or any other method fundamentally arbitrary.
- I don't "have a very well-thought rationale" for sorting by first name because no rationale exists on the wiki. I picked up sorting alphabetically by first name a decade ago by looking at how we sort in-universe subjects in categories (by first letter of the article title, counter to how we sort them by surname in real-world subjects' articles) and from navboxes that already existed then (which were all over the place) and trying to copy those methods to remain consistent, because there was no guidance in the wiki then either on how to sort them. And when I created Help:Creating and using lists or Help:Navboxes, I didn't put any consistent guidance or examples on sorting because the wiki didn't have any to offer.
- You're actively providing advice to editors on sorting methods; I'm asking you to add that guidance to community resources, whether as enforced policy in the MoS or advice on a Help page, so it can help more editors—including me—and help resolve more conflicts like this. -Oznogon (talk) 01:15, 1 March 2025 (UTC)
- OK, Oz, I have added a note to Help:Navboxes about alphabetical sorting. Help:Creating and using lists already has such a note in its 'Creating lists' subsection. In another section of that latter help page, 'sorting' was used synonymously to indicate alphabetical sorting, but I have now spelt that out. Under 'Bulleted and numbered lists', the MoS has 'Alphabetize unordered bulleted lists unless a more logical organization is possible.' I could append that with 'including within navboxes'. That latter needs a policy change agreement first. I am very reluctant to enforce my preference on the wiki without support / consultation. Do you want me to write 'alphabetize by surname' in the two help pages you mention? If so, I will. --Fleanetha (talk) 12:51, 1 March 2025 (UTC)