Template talk:Otari navbox

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Otari Organizations

I'd like to fill in the remaining organization section of the Otari navbox, but require some guidance on a few details.

First off, 'Farmer's Guild' is both the name of a town building, and the name of an organization that operates from that building. Therefore, I'm unsure what these two separate pages should be named. Rexert (talk) 00:32, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

There's no hard-and-fast guidance on this. If it were me, because it's a local organization with no presence outside of Otari, I'd create a Farmer's Guild article for the organization and add a Headquarters section to it that describes the building of the same name.

Since the Otari "Farmer's Guild" is the only organization so formally named that I can find in canon, a reader who goes searching for "Farmer's Guild" should then get the information they're looking for, whether that's the organization or the structure that houses it. If the Farmer's Guild building becomes uniquely notable later, it can also always be spun off then into its own article.

Alternatively, it would be acceptable to instead create a separate article for the building, as similarly done for buildings named for organizations (i.e. Aspis Consortium and Aspis Consortium (Sargava) etc., or Lumber Consortium and Lumber Consortium Headquarters). In my opinion doing so for the Farmer's Guild wouldn't add value for readers since the organization has very little presence beyond that one building in Otari. -Oznogon (talk) 23:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

I also don't think the Inkleholtz family should be listed as one of Otari's organizations. As far as I know, only one family member is ever named—Alymora Inkleholtz—and she is already the leader of the Whistledown Cutters. Rexert (talk) 00:32, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Troubles in Otari 22 refers to the Inkleholtz family, and Ruins of Gauntlight 72 refers to the Inkleholtzes' educational goals. Multiple named members of an organization are not required for an organization article to exist, and PathfinderWiki accepts short articles about canon subjects when little canon information is available. In this case, I think there is just barely enough information to warrant a short article describing the Inkleholtz family. -Oznogon (talk) 23:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

If this applies to the Inkleholtz family, then I believe the Menhemes family and Rajani family requires an organization of their own too, considering they have more named members, more references, streets that are named after them and both families descended from the Roseguard who founded the town. Rexert (talk) 00:13, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I don't disagree. Feel free to add them to the navbox. -Oznogon (talk) 00:19, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Lastly, I don't know the sources of the remaining organizations mentioned in the navbox. Please let me know which books contain this information. Rexert (talk) 00:32, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

From the template's revision history, it looks like User:Fleanetha might be able to cite sources for them more specifically than already sourced in Template:Otari navbox/doc.

A quick survey suggests some sources for orgs without articles in the navbox include:

• Breezugs: Troubles in Otari 46
• Fangsparks: The Shroud of Four Silences several references
• Farmer's Guild: Ruins of Gauntlight 70 (Abomination Vaults 13) and a mention in Troubles in Otari 24
• Gullcrackers: The Shroud of Four Silences several references
• Leadbuster Lads: Troubles in Otari several references
• Stonefang tribe: Troubles in Otari 44

I couldn't find a source for Monster Hunter, Helpers, and a Healer in a quick search. Per the edit summary for revision 283112, User:Fleanetha cited "more from livestream" on 6 April 2021 when adding it, but didn't specify which livestream. -Oznogon (talk) 23:43, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Much appreciated. Rexert (talk) 00:13, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I suspect the livestream in question for Monster Hunter, Helpers, and a Healer is 21:06 in episode 9 of the Pathfinder Beginner Box: Troubles in Otari actual play, in which case its canon status might be questionable. -Oznogon (talk) 00:18, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I have created articles for all Otari organizations I have access to, hopefully someone else can handle the Fangsparks and Gullcrackers pages. The canon status of Monster Hunter, Helpers, and a Healer remains in question.

However, I'd like advice on handling the kobold tribe that the Beginners Box is centered around. While the tribe's name is never mentioned, its leader Zolgran is. Would a page named Zolgran's tribe be appropriate, or should this group of kobolds not have an organization page at all due to no official name given? --Rexert (talk) 22:22, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Gauntlight

The Gauntlight is a massive dungeon containing ten levels and 50+ separately described chambers, cells, hallways, gardens, vaults and other locations, each of which could have its own page. I started adding some of the Ruins of Gauntlight characters and organizations to this navbox, but it is adding up really quickly. Technically, the Gauntlight is within the surroundings of Otari, and much closer to the town than some of the other locations already added to the navbox. However, I'm starting to wonder if the Gauntlight should have its own separate navbox instead, to prevent clutter. This could also separate spoilers about the Abomination Vaults from the Otari navbox.

Should these be two separate navboxes? Should deceased inhabitants also be listed in the Otari or Gauntlight navbox? And how should the extensive list of separate locations within the dungeon be listed in the PathfinderWiki? As a long list of locations within the Gauntlight page, as one page per level detailing the rooms available on that level, or as many separate pages entirely? I'm leaning toward one page per location, however, a few rooms are only described in a sentence or two. Rexert (talk) 23:56, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

Sounds like a separate Gauntlight navbox is the way forward here, Rexert. Many navboxes list living and dead (you can add that to the subtitle as is common elsewhere). Listing every numbered room in a dungeon is not usual, for instance, 'private washroom' doesn't need a page of its own. Only major rooms would require a page and maybe, in this case, each floor could have a page to mop up everything that has no page? This is subjective, so you'll need to make choices as you go - again there's no hard-and-fast guidance on this. It will all need spoiler tags too. --Fleanetha (talk) 00:20, 11 February 2025 (UTC)z

Got it, I've created a Gauntlight navbox and I'll be adding the subtitle. There is another matter I'm curious about; does the entire Isle of Kortos count as the nation of Absalom? If so, is the Isle of Kortos category redundant and unnecessary considering it's interchangeable with the nation of Absalom, or should I be adding both of these categories to all Otari pages? I would also like to know how to handle cases where a character's surname is unknown, but can be implied through their family members. For example, Ruins of Gauntlight pg. 68 mentions Emnala—the wife of Oseph Menhemes. Should her page be named Emnala or can I name it Emnala Menhemes instead? Rexert (talk) 03:36, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

I'll give my opinions rather than answers, Rexert.

Q: does the entire Isle of Kortos count as the nation of Absalom? Yes.

Q: is the Isle of Kortos category redundant and unnecessary considering it's interchangeable with the nation of Absalom? I don't think so as the nation of Absalom is more than the Isle. I am happy with both being added.

Q: I would also like to know how to handle cases where a character's surname is unknown, but can be implied through their family members. For example, Ruins of Gauntlight pg. 68 mentions Emnala—the wife of Oseph Menhemes. Should her page be named Emnala or can I name it Emnala Menhemes instead? I have assumed surnames before and it's not unreasonable to do so until Paizo contradicts. In this case, I'd make the main page Emnala Menhemes but also make a redirect for Emnala to help those searching just from that. Most importantly, I'd add a footnote stating the surname is assumed. This way, it's pretty clear what has happened and helps future editing if anything is confirmed one way or the other. An added advantage is all family members are grouped together in the navbox if you alphabetize by surname. --Fleanetha (talk) 13:59, 11 February 2025 (UTC)