Talk:Diobel

Cleaning up Diobel

I'm in the process of cleaning up the Diobel page by removing most of the "Places of Interest" and "Notable Inhabitants" and moving them to their own pages. I'll only keep the biggest or most important places and people on the Diobel page, as the page is now too cluttered, making it hard to have an easy overview of the town. --Brandingopportunity (talk) 18:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Conflicting sources (2015 Discussion) - CONCLUDED

Q1 Additonal note on a couple of minor conflicts, but in these cases they are same source being inconsistent. Towns of the inner sea states both Filius Hoag and Filian Hoag while clearly (to me at least) referring to the same individual. Filian is used once in Boldface on page 10, while Filius is used twice on page 11. I used Filius in my contribution.

Q2 Again in towns of the inner sea, an even more minor conflict. On page 11 the patriarch name is given as Makka Scabbits but the camp name and family name are given as Scabbit. I gave the patriarch name with the S, but referred to the family without. -- 77stephen (talk) 15:06, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

This checking of the detail is an excellent wiki editor trait 77stephen and highly commended. It is also where we can help a little on this wiki to sort out confusion.

Q1 Variant spellings of names are not uncommon and we can handle them in a number of ways. Firstly, there is always the chance that it is not a spelling mistake but, indeed, two separate individuals with similar names. Where this is a reasonable possibility, we err on the side that Paizo has got it right and maintain 2 pages until later sources contradict us. However, in some cases, it is a straightforward typo and clearly so. Here we can just state the variant spelling on the article's page. A search will then find the page regardless of the variation used and the reader can see the variants on the page. Have a look at Mammon. Alternatively, we can add a conflict page such as this one: Argahoz. Here a redirect is in place too for the variant spelling: Argahozz.

For Mr Hoag, I'd say we have variant spellings and would just place both on the page and add a redirect. Which one is favoured for the actual page name, we'll leave to the creator of the page.

Q2 I think your way of handling this is how I'd have done it - so we are using for the link, and subsequently the page name, exactly the spelling in the source book. Again, as above, a spelling comment and appropriate redirects might help a reader / searcher. --Fleanetha (talk) 14:05, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Fleanetha, I didn't want you to have to correct my spelling and grammar on every contribution, even if that is how it has worked out so far :-).... what about the age-old AKA? use one and refer to the other as an alias - or is it safer/preferable to presume that its a typo in the source? --77stephen (talk) 22:57, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Conflicting sources (2009 Discussion)

The Hydra's Fang Incident lists Kelvys Ragewind as chancellor of Diobel, and describes the Kortos Consortium as being the governing body. The Campaign Setting on the other hand, lists Lord Avid of House Arnsen as ruling the city, though it makes no mention of the Consortium. I believe this is reconciled in the Guide to Absalom, but inclusion of that source falls outside the scope of the current CSII project. --yoda8myhead 19:46, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Based on the information in the Guide to Absalom, I have made note of this on the Diobel/Conflicts page. However, what note should we make of Kelvys Ragewind in the article or the wiki? Does The Hydra's Fang Incident have any information about him that does not conflict with other canon...? For example, is he known to be a member or leader of the Kortos Consortium? --Goblin Witchlord 22:09, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

It's actually misspelled here on the wiki. His only mention is in the info below, just his name and position in the city statblock. Note that I am not comparing this with anything in GtA).:

AUTHORITY FIGURES

Kelves Ragewynd LN male human aristocrat 11 (Chancellor), Saphyre Margruel N female human Wizard 9 (High Advisor), Harimolt Grimsly, LE male human rogue 7/ shadowdancer 2 (The Silent Edict), Alyxus Gloamwise NE female half-elf ranger 5/Assassin 3 (Prime Enforcer)

Diobel is run by elected members of the merchant’s council known as the Kortos Consortium. Electorate terms are generally long, with some members holding their positions for decades. More often than not, those who take on the Consortium’s responsibilities end up forfeiting or retiring their other business ventures (usually shipping companies) and settle down in Diobel as career politicians. Technically, the Consortium is a free and independent organization open to any merchant willing to pay Consortium dues. The Consortium makes concerted efforts to reduce the trafficking of contraband, stolen merchandise, and tax-free imports, as well as the exporting of contraband Kortosian artifacts that fall outside Absalom’s enforceable jurisdiction. Most members find the organization’s enforcement extremely effective, though only the highest-ranking members possess knowledge of the organization’s true interests and activities. For further information, see the Kortos Consortium sidebar.

The only information from this source is the city statblock which includes the people listed above, a sidebar that includes the same basic info as in the CS and details pertaining to the adventure, and the paragraph above on the government of the city. If it is determined that c/p this paragraph here constitutes plagiarism, I will delete the page and restore all other content manually. -- yoda8myhead 22:26, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

(Resetting indent)

None of that information is in Guide to Absalom, which doesn't otherwise contradict that those people exist in Diobel or their information. Perhaps we could add Mr. Ragewynd as a Chancellor in Diobel, rather than a Chancellor of Diobel. Much like the deities of Lankhmar. --Goblin Witchlord 22:56, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

That seems a perfectly reasonable way to handle it. We should still include the {{conflict}} template detailing the decision we made in case it ever comes up again in the future. I get the impression that the listed NPCs are all members of the Kortos Consortium, in any case. Also, it bears mentioning that as far as the canon hierarchy goes, PFS scenarios are as low as they come for Paizo-published material. -- yoda8myhead 00:08, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Uh oh. I confirmed the name as Lord Avid of House Arnsen in Diobel/Conflicts, but I may have done so inattentively. The Diobel page had listed the town's leader as Avid Arnsen, as he is described at Talk:Lord Gyr of House Gyx, but Guide to Absalom cites him as Lord Aven of House Arnsen. I hope this is not another conflict. --Goblin Witchlord 01:44, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

There is source conflict of his name within GtA. Lord Aven/Avid is described in a single paragraph in Guide to Absalom, and is referred to by name five times. Three of the instances name him "Lord Aven". Two of the instances name him "Lord Avid". --Goblin Witchlord 01:55, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

This should be noted as a conflict, but we should disregard references to him as Lord Aven. Avid is how he is listed in the Tier 1 source of the CS so that supersedes GtA. I don't even think we need to resolve the conflict in the article itself, given GtA's internal inconsistency. I know that book was a major disaster in development, and we're looking at it closely enough to find some of the problems they missed. -- yoda8myhead 06:16, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

clean up for references - CONCLUDED

first thanks for all the help with my learning curve - I'm not certain what I did but current reference 11 and 12 refer to the same point but are duplicated. rather than keep messing around I thought I'd ask --77stephen (talk) 22:47, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Have a look at how I just changed the page and here for more general information: Help:Citing sources. --Fleanetha (talk) 14:53, 5 July 2015 (UTC)