Meta:Achaekek

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Retcons

See also: Talk:Achaekek/Conflicts

Realm

According to The Great Beyond page 40:

“

the Mantis God makes its home on Hell's first layer of Avernus, where it lives largely unmolested by the local devils. Even though the Lord of the First, Barbatos, can appreciate Achaekek's methods, the archdevil does not like having such a powerful being not under his control on his doorstep.

”

That was published in 2009, but Planar Adventures, published in 2018, changed this canon realm to Blood Vale. -Fleanetha (talk), 11:54, 30 July 2018

This is further reinforced by Lost Omens Gods & Magic 52. -Oznogon (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Power level

The nature of Achaekek and his relative power to other divine entities is in conflict across several official sources.

  • Escape from Old Korvosa 80–81 provides a D&D 3.5 statblock for Achaekek as a CR 30 creature and states that Achaekek is "not a true god", but a creature.
  • The Paizo Blog post "He Who Walks In Blood", written by Jacobs and published on April 28, 2008, states that Achaekek is a CR 30 creature and demigod.
    • In a Paizo messageboards thread from June 2024, James Jacobs states that Achaekek's statblock "was outdated to be a curiosity that we wouldn't be using going forward. You can use those stats as stats for him or for an avatar or whatever you want, but in modern Remastered 2nd edition pathfinder Achaekek doesn't have a stat block at all."
  • Inner Sea Faiths 5, Inner Sea Gods 175, and Lost Omens Gods and Magic 52 all suggest Achaekek is a full deity by any mechanical or canon definition.
  • The Windsong Testaments stories "The Three Fears of Pharasma" and "Rage of Creation", in-universe works that are not considered objectively reliable sources of canon truths, both state that Achaekek was one of the first eight major deities alongside Ihys and Asmodeus.

Per Jacobs' post, the current state of Achaekek in 2024 is retroactively reflective of his state across the Pathfinder canon. -Oznogon (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Previous discussions follow.

I noticed that Achaekek's power level within the categories was changed to demigod. I believe that James Jacobs stated that power level within the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign setting is determined by number of domains. Since Achaekek has five domains, he is much more powerful than a demigod, who should have two or three. He's not really a core god though, so I think Category:Minor deities is the right place to put him. -- Yoda8myhead 15:25, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the clarification; I wasn't aware of this statement and the Blog entry from 28 April 2008 explicitly states that Achaekek is a Demigod (there defined as a higher entity which can be killed by mortals). I therefore assumed that Minor Deities is the category for true, but less important deities. I'll see that I place the other gods in the appropriate categories when I work on them. -- Wormys_Queue 18:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Interesting. I guess that that's true. It's either a poorly phrased word in the blog or a system they implemented after the blog went up. In any case, I think we should look at things on a case-by-case basis and use our best judgments. In the end, it's not a huge matter of importance if a deity is classified one way or another and it's easily changed if we make a mistake somewhere.
Thanks, by the way, for all your work recently. Keep it up! -- Yoda8myhead 19:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I must question whether Achaekek really doesn't count as a true deity. While this is a Tier 1 source, being an Adventure Path, it was written for 3.5 and it has since been made clear, and even mentioned on this page, that 5 domains does make it equal in power to a full deity. Furthermore, the fact that it was created causing it to not count as a true deity would likely make several others not count as well. Would ascended beings (Aroden and a full 1/4 of the core 20, among others) not count as true deities, either? This just doesn't make sense to me. PonyFlare (talk) 23:31, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

I think most of Yoda8myhead's answer from 2008 still stands. If there's been new content in the last 10 years that makes a compelling case to overrule the blog post (which IIRC is Tier 3 on the Canon policy), by all means go for it.
I don't have The Flooded Cathedral, which per Fleanetha is the most recent Tier 1 source to mention Achaekek, to confirm if it has anything useful in determining that. You could also ask on the forums for an official clarification. -Oznogon (talk) 00:19, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Inner Sea Faiths and Planar Adventures support, if not explicitly state, the case that Achaekek is a true deity, so I'll resolve unless other new high-tier sources explicitly suggest otherwise. I've left the statement in the article indicating that his status is up for debate. -Oznogon (talk) 07:26, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Lost Omens Gods & Magic 52 explicitly states that his origin and powers are unknown and the in-universe subject of debate, and also groups him among less prominent deities localized to the Inner Sea region, but no Pathfinder Second Edition source suggests he is a demigod or otherwise less than a full deity. -Oznogon (talk) 18:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Unincorporated sources

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