Talk:Prestige class

1E prestige classes vs. 2E archetypes

Pathfinder First Edition prestige classes (PrC) and Pathfinder Second Edition archetypes fill very similar mechanical needs, and several 1E PrCs have been republished as 2E archetypes. Due to Project:No crunch, we can't actually talk about these differences in the article, and it's also unclear why PrCs like Hellknight (prestige class) and Pathfinder chronicler have PrC-specific articles isolated from the more useful canon information present in their related organization articles; the crunch that Project:No crunch prohibits is the only information in PrC articles that isn't present in their related organizational articles.

PrC articles have historically been neglected, and many are stubs with only an infobox or lead sentence. Should we roll them into articles about their related organizations or roles if possible?

For the rest, can we generalize them from prestige class articles to articles about player options, so that these "(prestige class)" spinoff articles can at least sensibly include 2E archetypes that fill the same canon role with different mechanics? The alternative would be to create even more low-content archetype articles in parallel to the PrC articles that also can't meaningfully explain why they exist due to Project:No crunch. -Oznogon (talk) 23:41, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

Personally, I prefer the idea of expanding prestige class articles with their relevant information, requirements and notable characters, rather than removing the pages and generalizing their content. Although I do support combining prestige classes with their specific organizations where possible, assuming this results in the infobox and other relevant information being moved to the organization page. The only issue with this approach would be categorization. Not all members of the Hellknight organization have the Hellknight prestige class, for example.

However, the way 2E archetypes are currently handled seems really awkward and doesn't mesh well with their prestige class counterparts. As archetypes only apply to player characters and aren't as relevant for linking from other articles, they could, perhaps, be consolidated into something more akin to Index of talismans. First option that comes to mind, at least. --Rexert (talk) 00:10, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

I support merging PrC articles with relevant organizations or other articles as they fit, adding multiple infoboxes and categories the same way deities that are also people, such as Arazni, double up on infoboxes and categories. Mechanical details can be handled by a link to aonprd, and lists of NPCs can be handled with categorization (the expectations of Project:No crunch does not apply to categories). If there is anything remaining (such as canon contexts for how those with the PrC differ from other organization members), then that might fit a subtopic. Hellknights are complex and unique to tackle, and could warrant a unique approach, since adding every Hellknight PrC and Archetype as an infobox to the already crowded Hellknight page might be too much (maybe they could go in Hellknight ranks instead?).

Article-wise, I also mostly support merging PrC articles with 2E archetype canon equivalents, but I think navboxes and categories should remain separate as they are useful tools for navigation even if the difference lacks canon relevance. -Ravenstone (talk) 02:32, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm proposing only the merging of standalone PrC and archetype articles into relevant canon articles, not merging/removing categories or infoboxes. Merge the content of Hellknight (prestige class) into Hellknight, Ulfen Guard (prestige class) into Ulfen Guard, Inheritor's crusader into Iomedae, Red mantis assassin and Death slayer into Red Mantis, Bellflower tiller into Bellflower Network, etc.

I'm particularly keen to merge the most egregious PrCs, like Gray Corsair into Gray Corsairs/Eagle Knights, Steel Falcon/Steel Falcons, Gray Gardener/Gray Gardeners, Riftwarden/Riftwardens, Knight of Ozem/Knights of Ozem, Shackles pirate/Shackles Pirates that create disruptively ambiguous links but add very little new canon information.

Some PrC/archetype articles shouldn't merge with other articles because they either have standalone canon significance independent of their mechanics, (such as genie binder, winter witch, Riftwarden, starlit sentinel, etc.) or because they can't be merged because they have so little canon significance beyond being a mechanical class applied to an NPC (i.e. master spy), or because they have effectively no canon significance because they represent purely player options (halfling opportunist, many generic 2E archetypes). These might require case-by-case determinations on whether to keep them standalone or merge them with something else. -Oznogon (talk) 16:36, 2 April 2025 (UTC)