Template talk:Other deities list

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Pulura, Ahriman and Shimye-Magalla

Pulura is an empyreal lord, not a full goddess and is already covered in the Empyreal lord article in the minor powers list (which Ahriman should also be moved to). Shimye-Magalla is not actually an entity; it is Desna and Gozreh. - HTD (talk) 10:54, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Pulura
agreed and I'll tidy.
Shimye-Magalla
I'd leave as [real world] the concept has a page on which the navbox is located plus [on Golarion] this entity is worshipped as a god by tribes in the Mwangi under that name.
Ahriman
At the moment, there are no individual deities / demigods listed in the Other Minor Powers list in the navbox, which is probably why Ahriman is in the upper level. Looking at it, there are several other demigods in that list (Aegirran, ...). I also note we have conversely got pantheons, e.g., Outer Gods, in the Other deities list. The template is a mess, HTD. Have a look here at an old conversation about bettering it that never progressed: Template talk:Deities navbox. I think pulling all the demigods out into the bottom tier as you suggest is a good thing. I like Oznogon's complete revamp even more. What do you think? -Fleanetha (talk) 20:03, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
The problem is that Shimye-Magalla is two, not one, entity, worshipped as if it was one. Or in other words, it sounds like a pantheon to me (a very small one, but still one). It doesn't even have its own list of domains. As for the other thing, my proposal is to place everyone with 5 domains in the upper list and everyone with 4 or less in the lower one. (Also probably not the appropriate place to discuss this, but there's still the problem of including non-divine things like thanatotic titans and gods that live elsewhere like Achaekek in the Hell/Abyss divine templates.) - HTD (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Phase out

{{Other deities list}} is a vestige of the old {{Deities navbox}} structure and should be phased out in favor of {{Deities list}}. This list also should not be moved wholesale into {{Deities list}}; there shouldn't be an ambiguous, poorly defined catch-all "other deities" list unless one is absolutely necessary, and most deities on this list don't need to be on it.

Any deities that are on this list and also on a more specific list, including the dead deities list, should preferably be removed from this list. -Oznogon (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I mostly agree with minimizing 'Other deities' but I think certain deities whose membership in a more specific list is not considered a major part of their identity should stay in this list. I tried to sort all the remaining deities here into groups to aid considerations of which deities are removable.

Deities that can probably be removed uncontroversially right now with no other changes

Potentially ambiguous

We could add several more "ancestral" lists to the navbox, but the ancestral category of the navbox is already crowded. I suggested splitting the ancestral category into Regional and Ancestral in Template_talk:Deities_navbox, with slight support from a couple members of the Discord server, but not enough for as big a change as this. I believe this would help justify adding some of the following categories.

Lists currently not included in the navbox (multiple members)

Halfling (3 members)

Sekmin (2 members)

Lists currently lacking a Template:Deities_list section

Vampire

Casmar, Qadiran, and/or Kelesh

Lists with only 1 member

Deities that are technically on a more specific list but I personally think they could also belong here

(More ?s means I more strongly believe it belongs here)

Others that might be removable

Deities I cannot justify removing from the Other deities list

--- Ravenstone (talk) 08:59, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Regarding the ancestral/geographic lists, I'd also started creating separate navboxes based on {{Deities list}} groupings, such as {{Tian Xia deities navbox}}, near the start of 2024. It wasn't clear then either whether that would be preferable to expanding {{Deities navbox}} further, and it sounds like that hasn't changed.
I'd also prefer separate, more narrowly scoped navboxes, but I'm increasingly unsure that consensus exists on how such groups are defined, and also no longer confident that we can still generically use the dictionary term "pantheon" on the wiki to describe groupings that aren't mechanically defined by 2E rules as pantheons (and if we can't, what terminology or structure is preferred).
Regarding the hag deities, AFAIK they're missing but aren't confirmed dead, but they're also already listed in {{Hag navbox}} and can be removed regardless.
Regarding some "non-deities", like morlock ancestor cults, we have canon descriptions of beings that are religiously worshiped as deities but aren't mechanically deities in terms of RPG rules. From an in-universe point of view, they are still divine entities with worshippers and the distinctions are purely beyond that perspective; not all worshipers of a deity receive divine magic from that deity, and for most non-PC in-universe inhabitants, religious practices between mechanical and non-mechanical deities can be indistinguishable. (If they weren't, Razmir would have a much harder time getting away with his whole shtick.)
But we also have freedom to classify such subjects in a navbox alongside other non-deific religions rather than in a catch-all "other deities".
(Shumbauth has other problems and might need to go into a legacy-only deities list until/unless the setting revisits it.) -Oznogon (talk) 19:11, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
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